(;GM[1]FF[4]CA[UTF-8]AP[CGoban:3]ST[2]
RU[AGA]SZ[19]KM[7.50]TM[5400]OT[5x60 byo-yomi]
GN[2013 North American Ing Masters - Zhiyuan (Andy) Liu vs. Jie Liang]PW[Zhiyuan (Andy) Liu ]PB[Jie Liang]WR[1p]BR[7d]DT[2013-08-06]EV[2013 North American Ing Masters]RO[2]PC[Tacoma, WA]US[Andrew Jackson]C[USGO2 [-\]: Hello and welcome to the AGA E-Journal's continuing magical coverage of the 2013 Go Congress in Tacoma Washington!
USGO2 [-\]: This is ROUND 2 and I'll be your game recorder this evening, Andrew Jackson, still smarting from a demotion from board 1 after my rank insubordination in the editor's room
uriel [1k\]: sorry to hear that andrew
USGO2 [-\]: ;) I think I'll live.
USGO2 [-\]: Here on board two, perhaps you know him by his KGS name of the bigbadwolf
USGO2 [-\]: And his partner this evening, Jie Liang!
USGO2 [-\]: The players are being seated and the board is quieting down
USGO2 [-\]: Excuse me, the *room* is quieting down
AzureSea [4d\]: andy liu!!
Rukis [1k\]: Go Andy!
USGO2 [-\]: Our TD Gurujeet Khalsa is bringing the room to order
USGO2 [-\]: and we're off to the races
]RE[B+1.50]
;B[pd]
;W[cp]
;B[pq]C[AzureSea [4d\]: go andy!
]
;W[dc]C[Demon [3d\]: my bet is on W this game
]
;B[ep]C[AzureSea [4d\]: same
]
;W[po]C[frozensoul [-\]: same
frozensoul [-\]: we want white to win all games!
frozensoul [-\]: to make up for this mornings travesty
AzureSea [4d\]: lol
frozensoul [-\]: so azure
uriel [1k\]: black won all games?
frozensoul [-\]: pick a game
frozensoul [-\]: to kibitz
frozensoul [-\]: xD
AzureSea [4d\]: hmm
AzureSea [4d\]: i think ill do board 1
AzureSea [4d\]: lol
USGO2 [-\]: this one will be better
AzureSea [4d\]: really? :O
H2SO4 [6d?\]: have you watched the whole game?
AzureSea [4d\]: xD i cant choose which one to watch lol
]
;B[dn]C[H2SO4 [6d?\]: watch both
USGO2 [-\]: these are live
H2SO4 [6d?\]: of course
USGO2 [-\]: in real time
]
;W[eq]C[H2SO4 [6d?\]: then how do you know this will be better
USGO2 [-\]: it's the one i'm recording, of course! :)
Nosabe [-\]: i need 8 eyes and 4 brains to watch all 4 games
H2SO4 [6d?\]: oh lol
]
;B[fq]C[AzureSea [4d\]: haha
]
;W[dq]C[H2SO4 [6d?\]: or just 4 windows nosabe
]
;B[fp]C[frozensoul [-\]: lol
frozensoul [-\]: this game is more straightforward
zanarkan: ... and Gurujeet always does the best games
]
;W[qf]C[USGO2 [-\]: I'm andrew :/
AzureSea [4d\]: andrew :o
USGO2 [-\]: these two have faced each other before
AzureSea [4d\]: andrew huang?
USGO2 [-\]: Jie Liang has beaten Andy before
USGO2 [-\]: can he do it again?
AzureSea [4d\]: doubt it
AzureSea [4d\]: andy's gonna win this one
Medriel [1d\]: my moneys on w
]
;B[qh]
;W[qq]C[frozensoul [-\]: andi lost to a few oversights last time
frozensoul [-\]: hell be much more prepared this go around
AzureSea [4d\]: yeah
]
;B[qr]
;W[qp]
;B[mq]
;W[qk]C[okion [3k\]: bbw? )
USGO2 [-\]: yes
]
;B[nc]
;W[ch]C[AzureSea [4d\]: he's also hjekshdf
USGO2 [-\]: gesundheit
AzureSea [4d\]: xD
AzureSea [4d\]: no srsly thats one of his accounts
AzureSea [4d\]: was a 9d on that
atlbrandon [1d\]: yea
]
;B[qd]
;W[md]C[royu [5d\]: andy played relatively normal up until this move
royu [5d\]: (for once)
USGO2 [-\]: Hello royu!
royu [5d\]: hellos
USGO2 [-\]: R16 also seems a bit abnormal here
royu [5d\]: feels like b should punish somehow and play other side
royu [5d\]: but it has to be aimed well or w gets a really nice settling move for d17 stone
]
;B[mc]
;W[of]
;B[nh]
;W[ph]
;B[pi]
;W[oh]
;B[oi]
;W[ni]C[Medriel [1d\]: hmm
royu [5d\]: q9 perhaps?
]
;B[qg]
;W[pf]C[okion [3k\]: q9 nice
]
;B[pk]
;W[pl]C[Longstride [1d\]: b already regretting the two space jump
USGO2 [-\]: royu, q9 and then...?
atarinogo [?\]: which jump?
]
;B[mi]C[Longstride [1d\]: o12
atarinogo [?\]: thanks
]
;W[nj]
;B[ok]
;W[od]C[atarinogo [?\]: this game feels natural, board 1 feels unnatural with stronger player as black
]
;B[oc]C[USGO2 [-\]: b plays P17 and has a swig of his energy drink
okion [3k\]: n12 next  mb
royu [5d\]: p16 doesn't seem to help w net o12
USGO2 [-\]: Sure doesn't
royu [5d\]: not sure if that's what w maybe was thinking
Longstride [1d\]: w maybe getting the forcing move while he still can? might not be an option later
royu [5d\]: n12 o13 n14 has improved shape however
]
;W[rj]
;B[ri]C[USGO2 [-\]: b with 1:01 on his clock
USGO2 [-\]: andy with (presumably) 1:20
]
;W[mf]C[USGO2 [-\]: Andy checks b's time...
]
;B[mh]C[USGO2 [-\]: as i'm sitting next to black, unless he peeks, i can only guess at w's time
]
;W[mj]
;B[ql]
;W[rl]C[USGO2 [-\]: b is peering intently around r7
Rukis [1k\]: if he focuses any harder he might see a glowing stone appear at anytime.
Knight [-\]: I don't see anything beneficial for B around R7
Knight [-\]: But I'm not 7d
USGO2 [-\]: Time for Andy to take a look at Ziyang "the Kid" Hu's game
USGO2 [-\]: (now showing on USGO1!)
USGO2 [-\]: and then he just keeps on stretching his legs out the door
USGO2 [-\]: B is settled in for a think.  what's the decision, i wonder?
Rukis [1k\]: atari
Rukis [1k\]: i bet
Rukis [1k\]: looks tough to pul out that stone
okion [3k\]: o8 mb
]
;B[qm]C[USGO2 [-\]: Andy returns
USGO2 [-\]: just as b plays R7
USGO2 [-\]: a few false starts from andy.
Kyousuke [9k\]: I was personally not expecting that.
]
;W[qn]C[USGO2 [-\]: "make the sacrifice bigger" is a good proverb
myrtle [4d\]: shape ftw
USGO2 [-\]: in my case, it applies to whole groups
Knight [-\]: Hmm....Was there a problem with Q7?
Knight [-\]: Well, I do think this may end with either sente or good aji for W.
Knight [-\]: q7 feels bad for B.
]
;B[pm]
;W[rm]
;B[ml]
;W[li]
;B[lh]
;W[kh]
;B[kg]
;W[ki]
;B[lg]
;W[kd]
;B[ig]C[BeefCake [4d\]: w is pretty thin...
]
;W[hd]C[royu [5d\]: amazing how confident andy is with pushing a weak black group to split two weak w groups
USGO2 [-\]: confident or reckless?
BeefCake [4d\]: maybe he has plans to sac the center, dive in at m4 or something
USGO2 [-\]: are they different?
royu [5d\]: ladder also doesn't work... 
royu [5d\]: but I have confidence andy had a plan
Jhyn [2k\]: m10 would create the critical mass of weak groups to create an explosion
BeefCake [4d\]: true, so def planning to sacrifice
]
;B[hi]C[royu [5d\]: there is no clean ladder breaking move either
royu [5d\]: like playing f6 or something
]
;W[ll]C[royu [5d\]: i think if w had plan to sac center, he could have left it alone 10 moves ago and still have aji to come back to it
Kanin [-\]: B very nice tempo in this game
]
;B[le]
;W[ld]
;B[ne]
;W[me]
;B[nf]
;W[nd]C[USSRMan [3d\]: nice try
uriel [1k\]: well there goes some ko threats
USGO2 [-\]: b lets go a soft "tsk" noise
]
;B[lm]
;W[kl]
;B[km]
;W[jl]C[guapo [2k\]: what's a tsk?
Rochedale [4k\]: Just like it sounds.
Knight [-\]: Disapproving noise. xD
guapo [2k\]: is it like a soft laugh?
]
;B[jm]C[Knight [-\]: No
Rochedale [4k\]: Hmm, no.
uriel [1k\]: it sounds like it's spelled
USGO2 [-\]: he's shaking his head with K7
Moja [1k\]: It's a dental click phonetically.
]
;W[il]C[Rochedale [4k\]: More like a sigh, with a hard start.
]
;B[im]C[USGO2 [-\]: push, push, push
regigigas [5d\]: not bad pushing I have to say
myrtle [4d\]: b is thinking mmmm points, and then doh i have to live with j13 later
USGO2 [-\]: certainly easy for the game recorder! :D
Moja [1k\]: Expresses disapproval.
]
;W[nl]
;B[nm]
;W[mk]
;B[mm]
;W[re]C[trousey [-\]: are there going to be any pros this year?
trousey [-\]: any new ones
USGO2 [-\]: There has not been another AGA pro qualifying tournament this year
lifeisgood [-\]: setting up p8?
USGO2 [-\]: ...yet
ChoUsRival [-\]: love this move
]
;B[qj]
;W[rk]
;B[ol]
;W[ij]C[trousey [-\]: well i know i am no where near strong enough yet butit would be nice to say i tried haha
trousey [-\]: *but it
]
;B[rd]C[uriel [1k\]: last year it was open
]
;W[gg]C[USGO2 [-\]: Andy sits up straighter with S16
uriel [1k\]: i know a friend who participated many stones weaker than the average player (i think)
]
;B[jh]C[trousey [-\]: i didnt play last year due to 4ap classes and sports
trousey [-\]: i am only 12k 
regigigas [5d\]: good for you, trousey
]
;W[hj]
;B[ie]
;W[jf]C[trousey [-\]: thanks?
]
;B[oe]
;W[ng]C[royu [5d\]: b wasted a lot of ko threats here
royu [5d\]: also, is this a big gaffe?
]
;B[pe]C[Theo2015 [3k\]: black doesnt look like he has a path for escape
]
;W[mg]C[AzureSea [4d\]: looks like w won this game
AzureSea [4d\]: andy so strong :D
trousey [-\]: no wonder e is a pro
trousey [-\]: he
]
;B[gf]C[ljl [6k?\]: thought b had a shot at no...
regigigas [5d\]: big gaffe!
ljl [6k?\]: ko
]
;W[if]C[regigigas [5d\]: where! what ko?!?
royu [5d\]: yep, now b had to give up l13 group... liberties too short
ljl [6k?\]: not now, lol
royu [5d\]: andy is just feeding the turkey before slaughter
saspurs [2d\]: it is becoming a slaughter
USGO2 [-\]: andy tapped out two sequences, one 3 moves long, the other 7
USGO2 [-\]: (on the tabletop)
royu [5d\]: on his opponent's forehead
]
;B[fg]C[royu [5d\]: then laughed manically
royu [5d\]: maniacally*
Longstride [1d\]: then said "omae wa mo shindeiru"
]
;W[gh]C[guapo [2k\]: you are gonna die?
ljl [6k?\]: Omar what?
ljl [6k?\]: Omar?
Longstride [1d\]: nevermind :/
guapo [2k\]: thats japanese
ljl [6k?\]: God I hate autocorrect
]
;B[hf]C[Torres [2k?\]: all because of a 2 space jump
]
;W[hg]
;B[dh]
;W[fh]
;B[cg]C[royu [5d\]: c13
royu [5d\]: b is behind, but not insurmountable
]
;W[ci]
;B[di]C[royu [5d\]: attack c12 stone and try to gain cash in UL corner last two fights
]
;W[dj]C[Knight [-\]: I have to go, is there a way I can check and see who won next time I log on?
]
;B[cj]C[USGO2 [-\]: Crosstabs will be available at www.usgo.org
]
;W[bj]
;B[ck]
;W[dg]C[USGO2 [-\]: and www.gocongress.org
Knight [-\]: Thank you.
Knight [-\]: Goodnight All! :)
Medriel [1d\]: w is not done killing
USGO2 [-\]: good knight!
Kyousuke [9k\]: Crosscut, crosscut everywhere.
]
;B[eg]
;W[df]
;B[eh]
;W[cf]C[BeefCake [4d\]: utter domination
]
;B[ke]
;W[lf]C[Petrosian [3k?\]: But big black moyo on bottom
USGO2 [-\]: how big, petro?
USGO2 [-\]: in points
Machinery [1d\]: White captures SO many stones above
okion [3k\]: k15 helped w
]
;B[hh]C[Machinery [1d\]: Far exceeds the moyo
ljl [6k?\]: w moyo has many b stones 
Petrosian [3k?\]: Yeah, if w kills all stones at top, it's much larger
]
;W[ih]
;B[ii]
;W[fi]
;B[fj]
;W[jg]
;B[ei]
;W[ih]C[regigigas [5d\]: no threats
profan [-\]: wow, go & circenses :D
BeefCake [4d\]: b5?
]
;B[bg]C[regigigas [5d\]: doesn't kill I think
]
;W[bh]
;B[ig]
;W[fr]C[regigigas [5d\]: hmm w answers
Machinery [1d\]: ?!
]
;B[gr]
;W[ih]C[Kyousuke [9k\]: p12 
regigigas [5d\]: I guess its not a gigantic ko
Petrosian [3k?\]: g2?
Kyousuke [9k\]: or p13
]
;B[ah]
;W[bi]
;B[ig]
;W[or]C[Petrosian [3k?\]: g11
emre06 [9k\]: ignore?
Petrosian [3k?\]: looks bigger to me
AzureSea [4d\]: o.o
]
;B[pr]
;W[ih]
;B[bf]
;W[be]
;B[ig]
;W[oq]
;B[op]
;W[ih]C[Petrosian [3k?\]: Apparently, not.
]
;B[pg]
;W[og]
;B[ig]
;W[pp]C[Petrosian [3k?\]: I don't see how b can live after losing the ko.
Petrosian [3k?\]: or, just e9
ljl [6k?\]: I'm not seeing good things if b wins the ko
saspurs [2d\]: w p6 would be tough for b , after p10 q10
]
;B[nq]
;W[ih]C[saspurs [2d\]: nvm
BeefCake [4d\]: w is not actually risking that much, since m12 is already dead
BeefCake [4d\]: and b13
uhjh: how did the samsung prelim go for the US players?
]
;B[bk]
;W[af]
;B[ig]C[Kyousuke [9k\]: k15 ko threat?
Machinery [1d\]: Ben Lockhart won first round as did Eric Lui
uhjh:  ah
]
;W[oo]
;B[np]C[BeefCake [4d\]: sup machinery
]
;W[ih]C[Machinery [1d\]: Next match in a few hours
guapo [2k\]: no kyousuke, cause h15 cuts
uhjh: who were the other two ppl on the us team?
]
;B[aj]
;W[ag]
;B[ig]C[AzureSea [4d\]: did Andy win first rd
Machinery [1d\]: Can't remember, let me look up te bracket
Kyousuke [9k\]: I see, thanks
Suite [6k?\]: can u post that bracket??
SColbert [4d\]: s2
AzureSea [4d\]: did Andy win first round
saspurs [2d\]: nope
SColbert [4d\]: enough to win 
Machinery [1d\]: He isn't playing in it, amateur only
BeefCake [4d\]: wait in what, NAIM?
]
;W[sd]C[AzureSea [4d\]: yea for naim
BeefCake [4d\]: i think so
Machinery [1d\]: Oh, that I don't know, sorry
neymarjr: ignore
Herod [-\]: He won first round vs Yuan Zhou
AzureSea [4d\]: ah ok
AzureSea [4d\]: thx
Stim [10k\]: what is the threat of t 16
Machinery [1d\]: Beefcake, do you have bracket? I don't
]
;B[sc]
;W[ih]C[SColbert [4d\]: t16 helps make top terr
SColbert [4d\]: after ko
AzureSea [4d\]: hm
Machinery [1d\]: Also, Andy is gaining a lot from these ko threats
tuerda [2d\]: Stim, T16 threatens S17, taking many points and hurting black eyeshape
Stim [10k\]: thanks 
Petrosian [3k?\]: Yeah, but is that really bigger than the ko?
uhjh: i looked at aga and it says Yunxuan Li lost ot Jan Hora and Wang Yinli lost to oleg mezhov
tuerda [2d\]: I think so
SColbert [4d\]: b no appropriate threat
uhjh: for samsung
Machinery [1d\]: Yeah, Ben plays Oleg next
tuerda [2d\]: b loss from w S17 would not stop at the corner
SColbert [4d\]: resign
uhjh: yes
Stim [10k\]: is this live
Stim [10k\]: or just a remake
USGO2 [-\]: this is live
SColbert [4d\]: yeah
Timbo [17k\]: why not g11?
SColbert [4d\]: its a holywood remake
disturbing [1d\]: if it were a replay, it would be pretty cruel to make us wait in the middle of a ko fight
uriel [1k\]: this is the sequel
ljl [6k?\]: I cant get the game to revert to start
disturbing [1d\]: brad pitt will play andy
]
;B[er]C[spacellama [2k\]: options -> view offline
guapo [2k\]: you have to clone it
spacellama [2k\]: then you can see the whole thing
Petrosian [3k?\]: B pitt is 9p, right?
mdf116 [4d?\]: clone in a different room
]
;W[gj]
;B[dr]C[siguy [8k\]: would c2 make some kind of trouble/
ljl [6k?\]: not in android land
]
;W[bo]
;B[bq]C[SColbert [4d\]: wa
Stim [10k\]: dead?
Kyousuke [9k\]: White corner dead?
Eduardo [2k\]: dead
SColbert [4d\]: w ignores?
Wang1 [1d\]: almost dead
guapo [2k\]: b is pretty sure
regigigas [5d\]: e10
SColbert [4d\]: w dies here
]
;W[dk]C[Petrosian [3k?\]: woah...
regigigas [5d\]: ah, better
Stim [10k\]: curious why w didnt take more time to read out b5
guapo [2k\]: arent they good?
USGO2 [-\]: He already had
tuerda [2d\]: this is going to get even more complicated than it already is
Petrosian [3k?\]: W doesn't read.
Rochedale [4k\]: Well, this got insanely complicated.
uhjh: he doesnt need to read hes op
Stim [10k\]: hes a god*
lifeisgood [-\]: w reads on b's time
]
;B[dl]C[lxw3d: w insanely to kill b
guapo [2k\]: empty triangle ftw
Rochedale [4k\]: You can rely on Andy to make the game entertaining.
tuerda [2d\]: he likes it complicated
BeefCake [4d\]: is this really a good trade?  bottom side looking reeeealy big
SColbert [4d\]: does b have loose ladder
tuerda [2d\]: if it doesnt melt your brain, he is unsatisfied
BeefCake [4d\]: empty triangle should work
SColbert [4d\]: no
SColbert [4d\]: loose ladder fails
Herod [-\]: You already resigned, SColbert
Rochedale [4k\]: :)
tuerda [2d\]: the empty triangle looks like it works
uhjh: are there strong kids in Us under 16?
Machinery [1d\]: Define strong
Stim [10k\]: whats Us
SColbert [4d\]: herod im not playing
uhjh: US
Stim [10k\]: oh derp
SColbert [4d\]: how can i resign
uhjh: idk like good as calvin
]
;W[ff]C[Machinery [1d\]: 5-6 dan? yes
]
;B[ej]C[BeefCake [4d\]: there are 2 ten-year-old 5ds in cali
tuerda [2d\]: ??
Machinery [1d\]: Calvin strength, no
uhjh: lol
]
;W[ef]C[BeefCake [4d\]: jianing gan is a beast, he's 16 maybe
tuerda [2d\]: ok, this looks terrible for white
Stim [10k\]: is bot bigger or top side
disturbing [1d\]: must be confident in counting...
uhjh: i think gan is like 17-18
Herod [-\]: SColbert [4d\]: resign
Petrosian [3k?\]: Yeah, how's Andy going to win now?
]
;B[kb]C[guapo [2k\]: bottom looks really big
SColbert [4d\]: van b l1i
SColbert [4d\]: l18
Machinery [1d\]: Yeah, also Hugh Zhang is still improving
guapo [2k\]: we all are
uhjh: i heard of hugh
SColbert [4d\]: looks promising for b
Petrosian [3k?\]: I'm getting worse.
uhjh: what about andrew ?
tuerda [2d\]: unless there is some magic tesuji to wake up the bottm left aji, it looks like b will win
USGO2 [-\]: So, why not E9?
SColbert [4d\]: e9 fails?
USGO2 [-\]: before F14
Nosabe [-\]: w would get caught
]
;W[hm]C[tuerda [2d\]: no clue usgo2
disturbing [1d\]: ohhh
USGO2 [-\]: *before* F14. the empty triangle
lxw3d: e9 is p f9
BeefCake [4d\]: i think if b just played f8 and let w play m18, b still ahead 5-10
tuerda [2d\]: w read that pretty hard, I guess it must have simply not worked
Machinery [1d\]: Black has the ladder
tuerda [2d\]: although I cannot see the sequence
Kanin [-\]: usgo, b pushes at f9 and f8 and then connects at d7, w can't escape
]
;B[hn]C[ahero [4d\]: e9 f9 e8 f8 e7 f7 e6 e5 f6 g6 d7 c7 c8 f5 \\
neymarjr: w d9 for e10 was enough, wasn't it?
Kanin [-\]: (before F14)
neymarjr: and later w can h7 or defen at m17
guapo [2k\]: the question is why w took after e2
Machinery [1d\]: e9 f9 e8 f8, if atari the single stone, squeeze and push into the side
USGO2 [-\]: discuss amongst yourselves :P
Machinery [1d\]: ahero, yea
tuerda [2d\]: it is looking more and more like this was a mistake guapo
]
;W[gm]C[Petrosian [3k?\]: Sure does.
neymarjr: and now b lead on territories
BeefCake [4d\]: f8.  gm over.
tuerda [2d\]: b a very big territorial lead and the fighting is dying
Petrosian [3k?\]: W needs a miracle.
Stim [10k\]: plus top area b can stil reduce
Petrosian [3k?\]: What is Liang's rating?
Eduardo [2k\]: 7d?
Machinery [1d\]: L18 was titanic
emc2 [3d\]: 7d
klrs: in fact
]
;B[fn]C[Suite [6k?\]: i think andy will win
Machinery [1d\]: Seals the game
neymarjr: oh yes this ladder maybe turning point, w can reduce bottom
]
;W[lb]
;B[lc]
;W[jb]C[klrs: I think w missed a very simple sequence
disturbing [1d\]: did andy ever end up spending time in korea?
neymarjr: oh it did'nt
ahero [4d\]: yes
Machinery [1d\]: No
]
;B[kc]
;W[jc]C[neymarjr: didn't*
]
;B[ja]
;W[ia]
;B[ka]C[uhjh: andy didnt go to korea, gansheng did
SColbert [4d\]: s2
tuerda [2d\]: E9?
SColbert [4d\]: neX
]
;W[rr]C[royu [5d\]: scolbert, to answer your question in other room, I think it's Matthew Burral
tuerda [2d\]: maybe e9 doesnt work
SColbert [4d\]: thanks royu
klrs: instead of D9, had w moved E10
SColbert [4d\]: how strong is matt
klrs: he would have had more than sufficient
]
;B[ib]
;W[ic]C[Stim [10k\]: e9 doesnt work
neymarjr: e9 can get the left maybe
horacelamb [3d\]: no e9 doesn't work
royu [5d\]: burrall*
royu [5d\]: he has AGA 7d rank I believe
SColbert [4d\]: okay
]
;B[hb]C[SColbert [4d\]: thats great
uhjh: is aga rank better than kgs rank?
Petrosian [3k?\]: 7d > 1p?
]
;W[gb]C[klrs: andy is too careless
SColbert [4d\]: aga 7d is between 5d and 9d kgs
tuerda [2d\]: that is a very big margin for error scolbert
ahero [4d\]: better this loss than losing s2
emc2 [3d\]: white lost points in this
uhjh: now way 7d aga can be 8d or 9d on kgs
SColbert [4d\]: its true
uhjh: no*
]
;B[ga]
;W[hc]
;B[ha]C[ahero [4d\]: but it seems impossible to come back now
]
;W[fa]C[ljl [6k?\]: I'm
uhjh: whats an example of 7d aga being 8d on kgs?
Petrosian [3k?\]: Yeah, w lost a lot for nothing?
]
;B[ia]C[guapo [2k\]: andy
]
;W[fb]C[ahero [4d\]: w lost to get s2
SColbert [4d\]: you mean rating or official rank
]
;B[nr]C[emc2 [3d\]: wow
]
;W[qs]C[uhjh: lol andy is 9d aga rating
klrs: sigh,w should just E10 to capture
ljl [6k?\]: ick
]
;B[os]C[ahero [4d\]: s2 was very big though
Kyousuke [9k\]: 7D is the highest official amateur rank, 7Ds are the people most likely to become pros
]
;W[se]C[lance [1d\]: Billin 9d on kgs
uhjh: i mean aga rating not rank
]
;B[rc]C[Tempus [-\]: Are the results and matchups posted online somewhere? I can't seem to find them.
klrs: then it is easy win
]
;W[fl]C[SColbert [4d\]: 7d rating is diiferent story
guapo [2k\]: we mean rank not rating
tuerda [2d\]: this game is completely over
shipshape [?\]: AGA rank of 7D is a rank not a rating. can have rating from 7.0 well up into the 9.0 range for computer ratings.
neymarjr: b already lead after d8
Kanin [-\]: B has a comfortable lead?
ahero [4d\]: it's very small lead
tuerda [2d\]: b has an enormous lead
]
;B[el]
;W[gn]C[Petrosian [3k?\]: W just blundered
]
;B[go]C[SColbert [4d\]: so whats matt B's rating
ahero [4d\]: less than 5 maybe
]
;W[fm]C[uhjh: i dont htink w i slosing
]
;B[em]
;W[fk]
;B[ek]
;W[oj]C[USGO2 [-\]: you can look it up
USGO2 [-\]: at http://test.agagd.usgo.org
neymarjr: close game?
horacelamb [3d\]: w doesn't have anywhere to earn it back at this point though
]
;B[pj]C[SColbert [4d\]: okay thanks
]
;W[nn]C[emc2 [3d\]: still close game
SColbert [4d\]: GD is back up again
ahero [4d\]: it's .5 b win maybe :S
SColbert [4d\]: thts great
]
;B[mn]C[Rochedale [4k\]: It's deffinitely very close.
neymarjr: wow
]
;W[rg]C[Tempus [-\]: Thank you USGO2, if you can, I recommend posting it on the go congress front page, or in your KGS info.
USGO2 [-\]: it's being rewritten
]
;B[rh]C[horacelamb [3d\]: what is GD?
]
;W[no]
;B[mo]C[Petrosian [3k?\]: SE B+1-
Petrosian [3k?\]: +10
]
;W[rs]C[klrs: it is very close
guapo [2k\]: w+2
ahero [4d\]: don't listen to se
Rochedale [4k\]: It is closer than 10.
disturbing [1d\]: serves you right for using se in an area scoring game
]
;B[sg]C[ahero [4d\]: ^^
Eduardo [2k\]: japanese or chinese rules?
ahero [4d\]: aga rules
guapo [2k\]: aga rules
]
;W[rf]C[Eduardo [2k\]: xD
SColbert [4d\]: a
Rochedale [4k\]: AGA rules.  So either, really.
eatramen [?\]: bootleg chinese rules
klrs: there is chance that w lose by tiny margin
Kanin [-\]: ah, w win 0.5?
ahero [4d\]: b win less than 2
guapo [2k\]: w wins by 2.5
Stim [10k\]: how do u count so well
guapo [2k\]: we just guess
eatramen [?\]: use SE to count
disturbing [1d\]: start with 1, then iterate
Kanin [-\]: yeah, w win 0.5, amazing
Rochedale [4k\]: Takes practice.  I've been working on counting for two years, and I'm still pretty bad at it.
ahero [4d\]: w won't win
tuerda [2d\]: seriously, you count w lead?
eatramen [?\]: disturbing...
guapo [2k\]: maybe he made it close on purpose
eatramen [?\]: that doest make sense
ahero [4d\]: b is winning
Kanin [-\]: no, b win 0.5, sorry ;)
royu [5d\]: tough loss for andy
emc2 [3d\]: w+0.5
Petrosian [3k?\]: How do you get 0.5?
tuerda [2d\]: my count says b win by reasonable margin
klrs: b O9 2 pts
guapo [2k\]: your count is wrong
Kanin [-\]: y not?
Wang1 [1d\]: black win.
klrs: then b will have 115
rayheart [1d\]: what is a reasonable margin xD
tuerda [2d\]: about 10,but it is a rough count
uhjh: b wins
klrs: w has 106
eatramen [?\]: B+12.5
guapo [2k\]: w+2.5
BeefCake [4d\]: lol
ahero [4d\]: PSA SE is very wrong in area scoring games
guapo [2k\]: wait w+0.5
Stim [10k\]: i think w win, but idk if i counted right
disturbing [1d\]: thank you, ahero
royu [5d\]: andy actually had a great position but ko in middle was a big blunder
klrs: b has a margin of either 8, or 9 pts
Rochedale [4k\]: It's all across the board here.  It'll be interesing to see the result.
royu [5d\]: it was w's game to lose
emc2 [3d\]: o9
guapo [2k\]: are they counting?
lxw3d: w win if komi 7.5
klrs: the ko was not a blunder I think
USGO2 [-\]: not yet
Petrosian [3k?\]: Why is SE so off?
Stim [10k\]: how much is komi?
klrs: but D9 was
disturbing [1d\]: it's embarrassing when people use the SE number
tuerda [2d\]: oh right, I forgot to add komi!
]
;B[nk]C[Kanin [-\]: what's the komi?
]
;W[pn]
;B[om]
;W[sj]C[klrs: it should have done at E10 capture
tuerda [2d\]: haha, ok the game is actually pretty close
Rochedale [4k\]: AGA komi is 7.5
ahero [4d\]: SE has an error where it doesn't properly count captured stones
Stim [10k\]: komi changes alot
ahero [4d\]: or gives credit for captured stones when it shouldn't
Stim [10k\]: so se screwed you over
klrs: then, w has a comfortable lead
]
;B[ak]
;W[ai]C[ahero [4d\]: some kind of error
guapo [2k\]: 0.5 game fore sure
Petrosian [3k?\]: B ahead in captures
]
;B[sh]C[Rochedale [4k\]: I think w is is ahead.
Stim [10k\]: how did this happen -.-
]
;W[sf]
;B[qi]C[MarcoRosso [4k\]: By my count White is ahead by 7.5 points.
]
;W[si]
;B[on]
;W[qe]C[eghwg: you are all wrong
disturbing [1d\]: I see 16 captures in w's territory
KemoClaw [3k\]: er... j13 g11 m10 m9 l10 
Stim [10k\]: you have to fill in neutral points?
MicaelS [3d\]: b+0.5
royu [5d\]: b wins by 2.5
Petrosian [3k?\]: Yeah, why dame?
guapo [2k\]: yes it's like chinese rules
Rochedale [4k\]: In AGA you do have to fill in neutral points.
]
;B[ps]TW[aa][ba][ca][da][ea][ab][bb][cb][db][eb][ac][bc][cc][ec][fc][gc][ad][bd][cd][dd][ed][fd][gd][id][jd][ae][ce][de][ee][fe][ge][he][ie][je][ke][le][bf][gf][hf][kf][bg][cg][ig][kg][lg][ah][hh][jh][lh][mh][nh][gi][hi][ii][ji][mi][jj][kj][lj][gk][hk][ik][jk][kk][lk][sk][gl][hl][sl][sm][rn][sn][qo][ro][so][rp][sp][rq][sq][sr][ss]TB[la][ma][na][oa][pa][qa][ra][sa][lb][mb][nb][ob][pb][qb][rb][sb][pc][qc][dj][dk][al][bl][cl][nl][pl][am][bm][cm][dm][an][bn][cn][en][in][jn][kn][ln][ao][bo][co][do][eo][fo][ho][io][jo][ko][lo][ap][bp][cp][dp][gp][hp][ip][jp][kp][lp][mp][aq][cq][dq][eq][gq][hq][iq][jq][kq][lq][oq][ar][br][cr][fr][hr][ir][jr][kr][lr][mr][or][as][bs][cs][ds][es][fs][gs][hs][is][js][ks][ls][ms][ns]C[Kyousuke [9k\]: its chinese-style counting
Petrosian [3k?\]: Aga rules are dumb.
ahero [4d\]: .5 win
Kyousuke [9k\]: every dame filled is one point
tuerda [2d\]: haha eghwg: B win comfortable, W win comfortable, and close game are all wrong??
Kanin [-\]: b gets last dame? then 2.5 yes
guapo [2k\]: japanese you also have to fill if you want to count at the end
Merlot [1k\]: B 0.5
Rochedale [4k\]: You can count in area or territory style in AGA, same result either way.
ahero [4d\]: or maybe 1.5 
ahero [4d\]: not sure which
trousey [-\]: why don't we just do japanesse counting is the usa like every country besides china
Petrosian [3k?\]: pass?
eatramen [?\]: Japanese rules are the only rules
Petrosian [3k?\]: every country is different
neymarjr: w+1.5
Stim [10k\]: whats difference between japanese and chinese
Stim [10k\]: counting
SnC [2k\]: seems b not bad
USGO2 [-\]: they are counting
trousey [-\]: coutning and komi is 7.5
trousey [-\]: not 6.5
tuerda [2d\]: japanese counting = territory plus captures
Rochedale [4k\]: Japanese rules basically require referees.  Not so good.
hunyadifan [7k\]: is there a live feed usgo?
SametH [10k\]: 7.5 so big
Eduardo [2k\]: chinese rules is ok, aga rules, hmm i dont understand it xD
Petrosian [3k?\]: Cant' they just play pass then?
tuerda [2d\]: chinese counting = territory + living stones
emc2 [3d\]: this is more like chinese rule
ahero [4d\]: 1.5 win
guapo [2k\]: b+1.5
atarinogo [?\]: each side has very large territories, like beginner game
Kyousuke [9k\]: Chinese counting counts all stones on the board
royu [5d\]: aga rules is just like trying to create own identity... but not necessarily better
USGO2 [-\]: b+1.5 points
eatramen [?\]: no live feed far as i know
trousey [-\]: mhmm
Petrosian [3k?\]: Yeah, i knew it.
ahero [4d\]: chinese counting handles prisoner disputes better
guapo [2k\]: i thought andy was invincible :(
emc2 [3d\]: good game for Jie Liang
rayheart [1d\]: good :)
ahero [4d\]: japanese is easier to count
Rochedale [4k\]: AGA tries it's best to create rules that always end in a definitive result.
Kyousuke [9k\]: Good game.
guapo [2k\]: thx USGO1
sweety [-\]: Thank you, USGO2
Petrosian [3k?\]: Do they handle triple ko?
trousey [-\]: what is the score?
Stim [10k\]: whats the end score?
okion [3k\]: tx
USGO2 [-\]: Thank you for watching!
guapo [2k\]: 2.
ahero [4d\]: 185 to 183.5
USGO2 [-\]: tip your volunteers!
Rochedale [4k\]: AGA does handle triple ko.  Uses the super ko rule.
USGO2 [-\]: tip sweety!
eatramen [?\]: what royu said
trousey [-\]: w win?
Kyousuke [9k\]: AGA has superko ruels I believe
USGO2 [-\]: tip your drinks!
royu [5d\]: thanks usgo
Stim [10k\]: b+1.5?
ahero [4d\]: b wins
trousey [-\]: dang gg andy congrates Jie 
eatramen [?\]: tip: look both ways before crossing the street
Petrosian [3k?\]: Andy would have won if not for that blunder on the top
Tempus [-\]: Is the correct amount for a tip 7.5?
ljl [6k?\]: thx for the display
Petrosian [3k?\]: at k19
Stim [10k\]: yeah ^
trousey [-\]: yeah
royu [5d\]: frustrating for andy - had huge advantage but careless and got into that ko fight
Petrosian [3k?\]: THat was a 10k mistake
Petrosian [3k?\]: or 15k
RobertT [-\]: tip: play a center shimari to enclose the entire board
ahero [4d\]: i don't think the top was a blunder petorsian
sweety [-\]: *hands USGO2 a KGS sticker*
trousey [-\]: more like mistakes i ahve been making daily now
])
